Whose Line is it Anyway?

Carnival Cruise ships - Nassau, Bahamas
Copyright Andy Richards 2022 - All Rights Reserved

MANY OF you probably remember the popular improvisational comedy show starring Drew Cary, Wayne Brady, Ryan Styles and Colin Mochrie (1988 - 2007). It's hard (for us old folks) to believe that was already 10 years ago. When thinking about the mish-mash of cruise ship lines out there, the show came to mind.

Norwegian Cruise Ship - Glacier Bay National Park - Alaska
Copyright Andy Richards 2010 - All Rights Reserved

IS ANYBODY else confused about all the different rules and processes on different cruise lines? Perhaps more to the point, are they really different cruise lines? We started cruising in 2010. Our first experience, after some "deep dive" online research, was Princess Cruise Lines. At the time we weren't looking for a particular demographic or experience. I was given the nod to choose our first cruise and destination, and decided on Alaska's "Inside Passage." Alaska was one of the first cruise line destinations, and remains part of what I would call the mainline cruise lines' "Big 3:" Caribbean, Alaska and the Mediterranean (over the years, they expanded into parts of Northern Europe, Scandinavia, Iceland and Greenland, Australia and New Zealand, and other parts of the Pacific). In 2010, two lines seemed to have Alaska locked up: Princess and Holland America.

Princess' Exclusive Terminal - Whittier, Alaska
Copyright Andy Richards 2010 - All Rights Reserved

PRINCESS STILL seems to have the upper hand in Alaska, with their own terminal in Whittier, their own double-decker railroad, and 5 Princess Lodge hotels throughout the northern part of Alaska. At the time I narrowed our choices down to the two lines above. There were a few minor things we thought we would like better about Princess (we did the "cruise-only" trip), but it was a very close call. Interestingly, some good friends of ours did essentially the same itinerary (their first cruise also) on HAL and had some good things to say about it. We liked Princess and followed with several other cruises on Princess. We had almost chosen HAL, and had we done so, our cruising history and progression may have been very different. We cruised on HAL for the first time 14 years later!

There are 3 holding companies that own the 6 "major" cruise lines

OF COURSE other lines cruise in Alaska, but why did it seem that these two lines were so prevalent? Especially HAL. Princess kind of makes sense as they have all of the infrastructure up there. By why HAL? Sometime during our first couple years of cruising, we decided to buy Princess Stock. We like to own stock in products we use and like, and particularly in the travel and entertainment industry, there are often stockholder "perks." To my astonishment, owning Princess Stock meant owning stock in its holding company: non other than Carnival Corporation! Often thought of as "The K-mart of cruise lines," Carnival is one of the last lines we would personally consider cruising on (not trying to be "elitist," but there are just too many things . . . this isn't a cruise line bashing blog, so I will leave it at that). The same holding company also owns HAL. That probably explains HAL' substantial presence in Alaska, as there are most certainly agreements between the two cruise lines for the use of facilities.

Cruise Ships - Cozumel, Mexico
Copyright Andy Richards 2022 - All Rights Reserved

THERE ARE 3 holding companies that own the 6 "major" (I like to call them mainline) cruise lines. Carnival Corporation owns more than any of the others and its "stable" includes in addition to Carnival Cruises, Princess and HAL, European-centered lines: Costa, P&O, and AIDA. Carnival also owns so-called "luxury lines:" Cunard and Seabourn.

Disney and Celebrity Cruise Ships - Nassau, Bahamas
Copyright Andy Richards 2022 - All Rights Reserved

THE PARENT of Royal Caribbean is Royal Caribbean Ltd., which also owns Celebrity, Azamera and Silversea, along with a handful of other lessser known lines. The other remaining relative giant: Norwegian Cruise Lines (NCL) owns their own line as well as Oceania and Regent Seven Seas. There is one other popular line for family and children: Disney. They (of coursse) are owned solely by Disney.

Royal Caribbean and Celebrity Cruise Ships - St. Kitts, West Indies
Copyright Andy Richards 2024 - All Rights Reserved

WHEN I first discovered that Princess and HAL were both owned by the Carnival Companies, I wondered, how in the world they could be so different in terms of the quality of the ships and cruises? It appears that each of these separate lines started out at some point on their own, and today's large conglomerate ownership is the result of what we attorneys sometimes used to refer to as "M&A" (mergers and acquisitions). For the most part, when those acquistions happened, if the acquired line was doing reasonably well on their own and had developed a culture and clientele, the owners determined to leave them well enough alone. Consequently, the essential "flavor" of each cruise line has been maintained over the years, even though the is no doubt some "higher level" decisions that apply to all the lines Those high level decisions (I am thinking largely cost-cutting and marketing) may account for why some of the changes we see in current years seem to affect multiple cruise lines). So there you go. The "Paul Harvey" clip on cruise line ownership.

Multiple Cruise Ships in St. Maarten
Copyright Andy Richards 2012 _All Rights Reserved

"Event" Cruising - Tales of a Vineyard Voyage

Barb and Bart O'Brien - Proprietors - O'Brien Estate Winery

WE STARTED cruising in May of 2010, with our first experience being a one-way Alaska Inside Passage Cruise (on Princess' Diamond Princess). I may have mentioned in previous blogs that I was very "lukewarm" about the cruising experience in general. I had been hearing about them for years, growing up. Mostly what we heard about were Caribbean Cruises. My "mind's eye" conjured big buffets, open 24-hours, serving low quality food; swimming pools and beaches. I grew up in Michigan, land of many inland lakes, and surrounded by the Great Lakes, so water and boats were not a concern for me. Neither were they a particularly big deal. My thoughts for vacations at that time leaned toward traveling on terra firma.

On a "lark," we signed up

OF COURSE my preconceptions were wrong, and to my surprise, I ended up liking cruising. Enough that I looked forward to the next one, which didn't come until two years later, this time in February of 2012, and this time in The Caribbean (on Princess' Ruby Princess). On both of these cruises we were with family. Anyone who had experience gets that Alaska and the Caribbean are two very different experiences. But the common denominator is still the onboard cruise experiences - and there are a lot of similarities there. We have since been on many cruises - both warm and cool weather - and on balance, I have to say that I enjoy the warm weather for the onboard experience. After the Ruby Princess experience we were ready to do more cruising. Following our Alaska adventure, that view changed dramatically. Since then we have been on 20 cruises - and counting. Over a period of 15 years, our cruising has eventually divided up into 3 different categories. Our "sun and fun" cruises are in the Caribbean. Our other cruises are in as many different parts of the world as we can find - and are our exploring the world cruises. The third category is more of a special event type cruise. We have had two of them (so far), and both have been sponsored by Bart and Barb O'Brien and The O'Brien Estate Winery, in Napa, California.

My thoughts for vacations at that time leaned toward traveling on terra firma

OUR THIRD cruise would be a bit of a new adventure. But first, some background. Our daughter moved to San Francisco in the mid-2000's. My wife and I were married in October, and we had begun to make the September/October time of the year a kind of travel/anniversary trip tradition. It doesn't always happen, but it has made that time of year a time we plan for. It doesn't hurt that in most parts of the world that is some of the best weather also. In 2011, we decided to travel to San Francisco in early October to visit our daughter. In part to celebrate the "anniversary" part of the trip, we booked an overnight in Napa, with a private guide - wine tasting. We visited 3 vineyards, and had private tastings, in two cases with the owners of the facilities. We thoroughly enjoyed that and I ultimately became (albeit long-distance and mostly "electronic") friends with those owners. It would turn out that they actually had a connection, though neither they nor us knew about our very insignificant touch on that. More on that later. We signed up for their "wine club" allotment system in both cases, and began receiving periodic shipments of their wine.

O'Brien Estate Winery - Vineyards
Copyright Andy Richards 2011 - All Rights Reserved

ALONG WITH the wine shipments, The O'Brien Estate, included a newsletter, with news about the vineyard, notes about the included wine, and often a recipe for a meal that paired well with the wines. Sometime in 2012, the newsletter contained some interesting "news." The owners, Bart and Barb O'brien, had decided to initiate some group travel opportunities for members. They enjoyed travel themselves and thought offering a travel experience which included tastings (or perhaps "seminars") about wine - and in particular - their wine might be an experience members would enjoy.

Obrien Wine Cruise - Celebrity Reflection 2013
Copyright Andy Richards 2013 - All Rights Reserved

WHEN YOU first meet Bart and he does a presentation, you will hear the clever and novel "story" of the O'Brien Estate wines. It is a love story, in which they have named their wines commensurately, from the newest wines to the medium to bold reds, to their dessert wine. Appropriately, their Sauvignon Blanc is called "Fascination," the Chardonay: Attraction; a series of reds from "Romance of the Heart," "Seduction" (their signature blend), "Passion of The Soul," and "Devotion."

THE FINAL chapter of the story is their dessert wine: "Reflection." It is well worth saying that these wines are not just some quirky, cheesy (although they do pair well with cheese - just sayin') sales and marketing gimmick. The Obrien Estate Wines are first and foremost, very high quality (consistently scoring in mid-high 90's in sources like "Wine Spectator"). They are also delicious. I am red drinker myself and I generally switch hit between the signature blend Seduction and their very smooth and tasty Merlot. If you happen to be in Napa, do yourself a favor and book a tasting with them. You will thank me.

NOW BACK to (our regularly scheduled programming) cruising. The O'brien Estate inaugural cruise was scheduled for February, 2013, a 7-day cruise out of Miami, with ports of call in San Juan, St. Maarten and St. Kitts. The "new adventure" for us was two-fold. We had 2 Princess Cruises under our belts and were pretty sold on the Princess experience. We still like to cruise on them. But this cruise was on a cruise line we had seen in ports, but had no familiarity with: Celebrity. Why Celebrity? Celebrity had 2 primary ship classes at the time: the older Millenium Class (starting with the Celebrity Millenium), and the newer "Solstice Class (starting not surprisingly with the Celebrity Solstice). In 2018, Celebrity launch their third and newest class of much more modern ships: The Edge Class. We have cruised on all 3 classes; more on Solstice and Edge ships. The 5th and final ship of the Solstice class was launched in 2012 and sported a few additional amenities, making it a (still) great favorite of Celebrity cruisers; the Celebrity Reflection. What better ship to initiate the O'brien cruise experience than with a brand new ship, whose namesake just happened to be the same as their ultimate desert wine: Reflection?

Engaging in some silliness with our new friends 
O'Brien Wine Cruise - Celebrity Reflection 2013

ON A lark, we signed up. The second "new experience" for us was going on a cruise by ourselves, with very little planning. We wouldn't know a soul on board. But that would soon change. The good thing was that onboard activities were pretty well planned for us. There being only 3 ports, we really didn't need to do much planning. We did plan our own excursion on St. Kitts (having been there previously without really doing anything). We took their narrow gauge railway around the high elevations on the island, and finished with a catamaran cruise back to the cruise ship. It was really fun.

I AM one of those "loyalty guys." If you show me good stuff I am impressed. If you continue to show me good stuff, I become a loyal patron. As such I was certainly moving in the direction of loyalty to Princess. At the same time I was prepared to not like Celebrity as much as Princess. Pre-cruise and at the beginning of the cruise, I made some unfavorable comparisons. In reality they mostly showed my bias (which in fairness wasn't based on all that much: 2 prior cruises).,In reality most of them weren't good vs. better, but just different. There are things Princess does better. There are things Celebrity does better. that is always going to be true. In the next couple years we would cruise again on Princess two more times, with a couple Celebrity Cruises mixed in. Later, we would cruise again on Princess (because the itinerary and opportunity was right). Over time and with more data, I do lean a bit toward Celebrity (enough so that we have The Reflection 5 times, and would gladly sail it again, given the right itinerary). But we wouldn't hesitate to sail on Princess (or Holland America - which we have sailed once), again if the ship, itinerary and opportunity was right. The Celebrity Reflection, though is most certainly our favorite "Solstice Class" ship. We have history with it.

The Wine Tower in the MDR - Celebrity Reflection
O'Brien Estate Wine Cruise - 2013

DURING OUR at sea days, we had several "seminars," which involved tasting and drinking Bart and Barb's wines. They brought I don't know how many cases aboard as part of the program. We got to hear the O'brien wine Romance story (again 😁). We signed up for the ship-sponsored Reidel Tasting, which was an hour-long tasting of some of the ship's better wines with the goal to demonstrate why there are different shaped and designed glasses for drinking different wines. Who knew? One good part of the deal was that each participant got a voucher for 4 Reidel wine glasses. We still have all 8 of them in our wine bar area. The Reflection had a wine tower that dominated the main dining room and went 3 full stories. It was full of hundreds of wine bottles and from time to time you would see the somoliers climbing up to retrieve different bottles. At that time, Celebrity had branded itself as a wine-centric cruise line (sadly, I am not sure they could deservedly say that today). That is perhaps another reason the Reflection was selected for the inaugural cruise.

Our Table-mates from the O'Brien Reflection Cruise - 2013

IN 2013, most of the mainline ships (other than NCL) still mostly went by the standard model of assigned tables and times for dining. The O'brien group were assigned 3 of their own tables. We were placed with six other travelers who were friends and family. Lou and Penny (you have ocassionally have seen their name here), a couple who were their friends, and Penny's mom and her boyfriend. Lou and Penny were the club members. We hit it off right away and ended up meeting for drinks before dinner and going off the ship together in San Juan. They introduced us to another club member, John and his girlfriend. In 2014, the 6 of us rented a house in Napa for 3 days and did independent wine tasting. On one of our evenings, we visited the O"Briens at their vineyard and had a cookout. Lou and Penny have been to our home in Florida a couple times. We all keep in touch today.

THE CRUISE was short but fun. Following a farewell wine reception I chatted with Barb (perhaps my first personal conversation with her of any length). Up until this time our conversations and interactions were cordial, but we hadn't really gotten to know either of them well. In this conversation with Barb, she asked a little about our trip to the vineyard in 2011 and that led to where else we had done tastings. In the small world department, the other vineyard we had made a connection with (and signed up for the allotment) was another small, local vineyard called Aonair. Back in the early days (around the time we visited there), the proprietor, Grant Long had a very small operation and owned no property. All his grapes were grown on very small rented plots, all on high mountain areas. The Aonair wines were all organically grown and fermented. While Grant has moved on, purchasing his own land and moving his base of operations there, at the time we were on the Reflection, it turns out that he had his wine bottled at the O'Brien Estate. Small world.

More New Friends - Obrien Estate Wine Group - Kilkenny, Ireland

FROM THAT brief conversation with Barb, and some other events, our friendship with the O'Briens grew. Proud of his Irish Heritage (Bart is a descendent of Ireland's most famous King: Brian Boru - the name O'Brien means "of Brian"), Bart is a member of a society dedicated to the history of that monarchy. In April we again joined the O'Brien Estate group on a multi-day (land-based) journey through Ireland, following the lifeline of the King. It was a great trip with a small group on a tour bus and in small bars in the towns we stayed in, and we not only got to know more of the members (unfortunately, Lou and Penny weren't with us on that trip), but we got some one-one time with Bart and Barb again, getting to know each other even better. In October, we did the trip out to Napa. Whew! that's a lot of "Bart and Barb" time. 😀

Did I mention that these are some of the best wines in the world?

OVER THE years since, the Obrien Travels have included several other cruises, including a couple river cruises. They always center around wine, with trips to local vineyards and wine country being a prominent part of the itineraries. For numerous reasons, our own travel and cruising has not meshed with them for much of that period. Until 2023. Sometime in 2022, the Newsletter included the newest upcoming cruise for the wine club members, this time to South Africa. I wil say from the outset that I would not consider South Africa a prime cruise destination. My own recommendation is that if you want to visit South Africa a land-based tour would be more fruitful. Having said that, it appears that at this time few cruise ships port there and when they do they tend to be the smaller (and perhaps more exclusive) ships. In this case our cruise would be on the Oceania Nautica.

O'Brien South Africa Cruise - Oceania Nautica - 2023
Copyright Andy Richards 2023 - All Rights Reserved

OWNED BY the large, mainline cruise line: Norwegian Cruise Lines (NCL), Oceania is deemed by them their "luxury" cruise line. The ships tend to be smaller (though the newest ships are certainly trending larger). Our "sweetspot" Celebrity ships have a passenger capacity of 2,500 - 3,000. The Nautica's capacity is 670; a quarter the size of our accustomed ship. We found that the accomodations were commensurately smaller. Our balcony room was small but nicely furnished. Our only quibble was the very tiny bathroom. Too small for comfort. There were not as many spaces on board. But the spaces that were there were all very nice. The ship was very traditional in its decor, but also very clean and well kept. A so-called "luxury" line, it was also commensurately more expensive than our normal fare. While there were some very nice touches, I would not judge it worth the significant difference in cost. But this was an "event" cruise, and if you want to participate in the event, you do not get to choose the ship. Besides, it was a new adventure. There were enough positives that I would "never say never," about cruising on an Oceania ship in the future.

We made a few new friends and caught up with some old 

ONE THING that I will say is that the food was (mostly) the best we have had on any cruise. Particularly the food in the main areas like the main dining room, buffet and the poolside grill. Ironically, the one exception to that was the so-called specialty restaurants (which were part of the all-inclusive cruise - but very difficult to get into). Our group had one night in one of the two specialty restaurants. We were fortunate to be invited to join another couple we had become friends with on this cruise in the other restaurant. Each night the food in those restaurants was marginal. On the other hand, we ate in the main dining room all but once on the balance on the cruise. The food was excellent as was the service!

"Martini's" - The main bar on the Oceania Nautica
O'Brien South Africa Wine Cruise - 2023

WE ALSO enjoyed the rather small (by comparison to, for example, the Martini Bar on the Celebrity Edge class ships) comfortable "Martinis" Martini Bar. It was pretty much in the middle of the ship - fore to afte and up and down - and was flanked by the very small (an not much occupied) casino and a very nice seating area. Our group often used it as our before meal meeting spot. In general, the cruise was nice - but what made it special was the O'Brien group. We made a few new friends and caught up with some old friends. Craig and Georgia were on the inaugural O'Brien trip - on the Celebrity Reflection. And, I believe they have joined every one of the subsequent trips. I didn't remember meeting them on the Reflection, but we did sit with them for dinner the first night of the Ireland Trip (where we first heard about their son, Benji). On the Nautica, we met Benji and his partner, Clay and had cocktails and conversation somewhat frequently on board. We learned from them that Clay and Georgia had quite late flights out of Cape Town on our last day, as did we. We had booked a driver and guide to pick us up from the ship and spend the day touring around the Cape and my wife was easily able to have them added to our little group of two. The four of us spent a great day - although and exhausting one at that - seeing the sights of the cape: Table Mountain, Table Mountain National Park, and the vicinity of False Bay where we saw magnificent views, took a boat ride to see the harbor seals, saw the penguin colony, ostriches, and baboons and of course, the obligatory stop at The Cape of Good Hope. We had a delightful lunch with an incredible view and then finished the day seeing the colorfully painted houses of Bo-kaap. 

Craig and Georgia Boehlke
O'Brien South Africa Wine Cruise - 2023

IN SOME ways, the South Africa trip was the trip of a lifetime for us. While we fully intend to go back there someday on a land-safari based tour, as we age, we never know whether and when that will really happen. In the meantime, we were able to make the best of what we had, taking a couple daytime tours of animal parks and getting some pretty nice wildlife photos. We also continued to make new friends along the way. And of course, there were the "mandatory" 😆 Seminars. Twist my arm. These seminars involved the excruciating experience of having to drink some of Bart and Barb's delicious wine, and hearing some history and "war stories" about The Obrien Estate history and experience. And of course, the "Romance" story (again ).😉 The price we had to pay. Did I mention that these are some of the best wines in the world, ranking high on critic reviews - but more importantly, ranking high on my palate? And, I am not a true wine expert but I can say that I get the same reaction time and again when I serve one of the O'Brien wines!

O'Brien South Africa Wine Cruise Seminar
Copyright Andy Richards 2023 - All Rights Reserved

IT WAS interesting for me to compare the experience on this smaller ship versus our usual medium to large Celebrity, Princess, and eventually, HAL cruise ships. The upscale, kind of "clubby" decor was nice. The smaller buffet with fresher and in general better, foods was really nice (though there was a time or two when seating was a challenge). The dining room was my favorite main dining room of any ship I have been on so far.

Michael and Lisa - great and fun new friends
O'Brien Wine Cruise - South Africa 2023

THE ONBOARD amenities were mostly pretty good and included some very good "enrichment" programming. Rather than just having the cruise director talk about ports, the Nautica brought two South Africa experts on board and the programming went well beyond the "this is what you will see when you are on shore" kind of talks. In particular, one of the speakers was a university professor from South Africa who gave us some great and in some cases unfortunate, insight into the state of South Africa today and into the immediate future. Both of them delved into the history and culture of the country. Typically a day late and a dollar short, I read Michener's "The Covenant" after I returned from the cruise. I wish I had read it first as it would have brought much of what we saw and heard into a very different light.

My favorite entertainer aboard Nautica
Obrien South Africa Wine Cruise - 2023

THE ONBOARD entertainment was pretty good. They had a much smaller cast and orchestra for the evening shows, and while they weren't the huge, extravaganzas we were accustomed to on Princess ships, they were reasonably well done. The theatre was tiny. But of course a full ship would be less than a quarter of the bigger ships, and this ship was well under capacity on this cruise. To me, there was one "shining start" among the entertainers. There was a combo group which appeared to be lead by my buddy in the photo. I was a musician in high school, particpating in a couple different bands and playing three different brass instruments, so I alway love the small combo bands, especially when they play jazz and similar music. These guys played in one of the large bars with a dance floor nightly, and on sea days for a couple hours out on the pool deck. This guy played several different instruments expertly, and I thoroughly enjoyed them. On our last night I made it my mission to introduce myself.

Two of my new "best buddies" - Michael and John
Obrien Wine Cruise - South Africa - 2023

MICHAEL HAMMER and I met on board at our first dinner with the group and we hit it off. Probably because I am just so darn likeable. We got to know Michael and his wife, Lisa pretty well during the week. Shortly after the cruise, Michael (a physician) took a job just south of where we live in Florida and we have been able to catch up a couple times. We also met John and Debbie and joined them on one of our "Safari" days. We spent a fair amount of time with them on board also. This was a pretty small and pretty close-knit group and it made being on the very small ship a lot of fun. As always I did meet a couple other folks who were not part of our group but were fun to talk to - not surprisingly in the smoking area where I spent some time with my cigars. Just as a side note, the cigar/smoking accomodations were not among the best I have experienced. But we got by. 😈

Barb O'Brien and (as Jimmy Buffet once said) "Just a few Friends"
Obrien Wine Cruise - South Africa - 2023

TO TRY to bring this long-winded account to a close, I want to say that when I first joined the O'Brien Wine Club, it was about business. And about wine that I thought was pretty darn good! When Bart tells the "romance story," he starts by talking about friendship. The story, he says: "is our story and it is your story." I love the wine (and so will you - I guarantee it). When I think about my own experience with The Obrien Estate these days I don't really think about wine. What I think about is friendship. We have been rewarded with the frienship of Bart and Barb O'Brien for sure. But the friendship has been an ever-growing circle and we count friends like Lou and Penny, John Mossop, Michael and Lisa, John and Deb, Craig and Georgia, and others who haven't been named but are certainly in that mix. Thanks to Bart and Barb and their O'Brien Estate Winery. And thanks to cruising - which for us brought this all together!

If you like pictures and want to see more of the adventures we have had on Obrien Estate Member Trips, you can see them on my personal photo website: LightCentricPhotography.com (they are not specifically labeled or identified as "O'Brien" trip photos, but the galleries in The Caribbean, South Africa, and Ireland contain many photos that were made during those trips).

Should You Buy That Drink Package?

Martini's Martini Bar - Oceania Nautica
Copyright Andy Richards 2023 - All Rights Reserved

AS I read about this subject on the internet, it seems to me that the primary approach taken is whether the packages are (economically) "worth it." I'll go out on a (pretty stout) limb here and opine that from a pure dollars and cents point of view, the answer is almost always "no." There are some economic factors that perhaps support the idea of justifying the packages, however. One major factor is that drinks on shipboard are going to be (often substantially) more costly than sitting at your favorite dive at home (or even on shore in many places). They range all over the place, but generally a cruise ship cocktail will be in the $12-$20 range.

So if it isn't really economically justifiable, why in the world would we do it?

 WE DIDN'T seriously consider purchasing a drink package on our first couple of cruises. Our first cruise was an Alaska Inside Passage cruise with Princess Cruises. There were a fair number of at sea days in during the cruise, and together with evenings back on board during port days, we would look at our stateroom charges and were surprised (though not shocked) at how those drink costs added up. But when we would do the math, it still didn't work out to economically justify the cost of the "package." The packages, pricing and limitations are very different from line to line and figuring them out can be mind-boggling. From what I can see, for mainline ships, a package will cost you between $85 - $125 per person, per day. Again, wildly imprecise math, but between 7-10 drinks for lower cost cocktails, and between 4 - 6 drinks at the highest end. Keep in mind, of course, that the highest cost drinks will only be available on the higher (premium) packages, so that will move more toward an average.

Sunset Bar - Celebrity Reflection
Courtesy of Cruise Critic

BUT WE didn't have the full picture. I am what some might refer to as a "coffee snob." The complimentary coffee always available in the buffet was - to  - barely tolerable. I discovered the specialty coffee shop the first day on board, and at that time, Princess (or the provider they contracted with) had a punch card you could purchase which (again, if you did the math) discounted the cost of each cup enough to justify its purchase, and actually had more punches than I ended up using on the cruise (possibly a negative). I ended up using that on my second (also Princess) cruise, though. We also drink a fair amount of water on a daily basis, and it is important to us to carry water off the ship and up to our stateroom at night. Some of the drink packages include these items. Again, they can add up quickly if you are buying them individually (of course, most seasoned cruisers are quick to note that the tap water on board is filtered and very much potable and you could just carry your own water bottle on board - so there's that). Still, I am not sure that if I did the math it even with those extras, justify the cost of the package.

DRINK PACKAGES can vary significantly both in terms of levels on the same cruise line, and from cruise line to cruise line. Our third cruise was aboard a new (to us) cruise line: Celebrity Cruises, aboard The Celebrity Reflection. Since that cruise, we have been on 4 more cruises on the Reflection, and it is one of my personal favorite ships. The final ship in Celebrity's "Solstice" class (kind of their "middle" line these days, with the older "Millenium Class" ships beginning to show a bit of age), the Reflection was the most modern and sported one more deck that the older Solstice ships. As much as we love the Reflection, Celebrity stepped up its game only a couple years later, with the Celebrity Edge (the first of its Edge Class). We have cruised on the Edge 2 times and on the (newer) sister, Apex 4 times (and are scheduled for a 5th cruise on her in August/September in Norway). In just a few weeks, we will board the (current) newest Edge Class ship: The Beyond and are really looking forward to it. But back to drink packages (sort of 😉).

I am what some might refer to as a "coffee snob."

THERE IS a back story here. In 2011, we traveled to San Francisco mainly to visit our daughter who lives there. But we also booked an overnight up in Napa to do some wine tasting (we really weren't big wine drinkers, but it seemed like a fun thing to do). We hired a private service and we visited 3 vineyards - all the same day. One of them was an estate vineyard, right in Napa: The O'Brien Estate. Bart and Barb O'Brien, the owners and proprietors, have a clever theme to their wines and naming. They use a "romance" to tell their story, naming their wines with names like "fascination," "seduction," and similar names. The names get "bolder" as the wines get "bolder." Their desert wine is named "Reflection." In 2012, Celebrity debuted the Celebrity Reflection. In February of 2013, Bart and Barb decided to combine their own love for travel with their great vineyard and its clients. It is a small vineyard in relative terms and the only way to purchase wine is to be signed up on their allocation system (in other words, you become a client). But even more importantly, you become a friend! And we have. The first trip was a cruise (neither of them had ever cruised before), and what better ship to sail on than one that befit the name of their ultimate wine: "Reflection?" They sent out a flyer announcing the cruise. I didn't pay much attention. My wife did. She read the flyer and "signed us up." It was an adventure for us. We had only cruised so far with family members. We would be on our own and not know a soul on board (except for Bart and Barb, who we had met once at their vineyard). It turned out to be a great trip. Maybe worthy of its own blog.

WHAT THE heck does any of this nostalgia have to do with drink packages? Well, it is my blog about our experiences. 😈 And I will bring it around. As part of our package for this cruise, we had been "comped" Celebrities "standard" drink package. It was one down from the premium, but looking at the selection, we thought it would serve us well. One more piece of relatively useless information first. The Solstice Class Celebrity Ships have a central social point: The Martini Bar. That bar has been our meeting point (especially for pre-dinner cocktails) on every cruise we have ever done on a Solstice Class ship. So there we were, on the first full night of the cruise, at the bar with our assigned table-mates and new (and now long time) friends, Lou and Penny. I was getting ready to order our "go-to" Gin and Tonics, when my wife asked Penny what she was drinking. It was something we hadn't heard of, so my wife said she wanted to try one. I ordered her one and the bartender said: "you know this is not on your package?" I said fine, just put it on the tab. When I got her the drink and he handed me the tab to sign, I was a bit surprised. It wasn't cheap. But I could see more of them on the horizon. On impulse, I immediately walked down stairs to the pursers office and upgraded our packages to "premium." We pretty much haven't looked back from that. Just a year later, we boarded the Celebrity Summit with a group of friends. The first thing we did was upgrade our (once again "comped") drink package to premium). Most of the time these days we are able to do it well before the cruise departure date (on Celebrity - some lines don't let you upgrade until you are on board).

I SAID my first upgrade was on impulse. It was certainly that and though we never really did the close math, I am willing to bet it probably ultimately cost us something more out-of-pocket. Part of my "impulse" was the knowledge that I could now get unlimited servings from the upscale coffee bar and unlimited bottled water. I also like to have a glass of wine at dinner and that gave me the option of trying different glassed. The Reflection - at that time - touted itself as being very wine-centric. I think is was - but I also think that it has since, dialed that back a bit.

SO IF it isn't really economically justifiable, why in the world would we do it? Good question. For the most part, our own justification is non-economic. For us (as much as we do it), cruising is a luxury. Over the years we saved and didn't travel or vacation much outside of visiting family. Once we got to the point where we were comfortable traveling, cruising became kind of "our thing." We want it to be our luxury and that means not having to attend to little details or analysis about costs. Sure, we do all that with the big picture - before we ever board the ship. But once aboard, the last thing we want to think about is how much is that going to cost me. The package does that for us. Some call it "peace of mind." I would say that is a little strong, but I do like that I can drink (within reason) what I want, when I want. Every morning for me starts with a trip to the specialty coffee bar. On an at sea day, it isn't unusually for me to start my morning (after breakfast) with a Bloody Mary and a cigar. I may also have another coffee or a capuchino. Then during the afternoon (especially if the weather is cooperative), I may sit and smoke cigars and enjoy cocktails. In the late afternoon we will have cocktails before dinner and maybe a glass of wine with the meal. And not altogether infrequently we may go have a final after-dinner drink somewhere. At night, I routinely grab a couple bottles of water, for the stateroom. That involves (for me) a fair variety. With the package, I don't ever give it a thought. That justifies it for us. That may or may not be justification enough for you.

I KIND of alluded to the reason we usually include the "premium" package above. We are cocktail drinkers. I also like a decent glass of wine with dinner. As we have grown older and more "experienced" we have gravitated to a certain level of liquor and wines and often they are only included on the premium package. And, we like to try new things - sometimes also only available on the premium package.

With the package, I don't ever give it a thought. That justifies it for us

SHOULD YOU buy a package? Should it be a "premium" package. Only you will be able to determine that. To do that, you should understand how the packages work. As I noted above, they vary by cruise line and it pays to do your research and to ask questions. The all have a list of the beer, wine and liquors included within each of their package categories. One thing to beware of though. We have had experiences where a certain liquor or wine is listed, only to learn once aboard that they do not actually have it. Sometimes you have to find it from certain bars. We have made it a mission to get to know the bartenders in our favorite smaller bars and they will almost always got "find" a bottle of your preferred liquor for you. It pays to ask (and certainly doesn't hurt to tip generously).

YOU SHOULD also think about how you drink. It is not unusually for us to have several cocktails (and as I mentioned, sometimes a variety) during the day. If you don't do that (perhaps have one or two drinks a day), it most likely isn't going to make sense for you to have a package (do remember, though, to count coffee and other non-alcoholic beverages that are additional cost items but may be on the package). What you drink plays a part as well. If you drink popular beer, simple cocktails and don't care about having them with the "well" liquor, you probably won't really benefit from a package (especially not a premium package). If you like call drinks and higher end liquors, you might - I'll address wine separately, because in my view it is a different animal altogether).

Wine Tower - Main Dining Room - Celebrity Reflection
Copyright Andy Richards 2013 - All Rights Reserved

WINE IS something that I have a different (and rather unintuitive) spin on. Like higher end liquors and even beer, one would think the premium package would be the way to go to get the wines you like. And that may have been true once upon a time. The vast majority of liquor falls within a certain class and with some very limited exceptions, even the more expensive stuff is attainable (and therefore generally included in the premium package pricing). Wine is just different. When we were on one of the Celebrity ships they had a couple $1,000 bottles on board. They have more that are in the $100 - $400 range. Those wines just aren't going to be offered "by the glass." To us, it seems like all the cruise lines have somewhat "dumbed down" their wine selections. Generally, even with a premium package, there are only a handful (usually one or two within each "type") of "nicer" wines offered by the glass. In our experienc, if they are not offered by the glass, they are not in any package. And, virtually all packages these days has a dollar limit on wines they will serve within your package. If you happen to be a conniseur and choosy about your wine, the package is not going to help you out. If wine is your thing, you are probably best to "go it alone," and choose your wines by the bottle (for those who aren't aware, if purchase a bottle and do not finish it, they will "cork" it for you and bring it for your next meal (in most cased anywhere on the ship where you might be dining).

THE NATURE of the cruise can also be a factor. We tend to drink more when on Caribbean cruises just because of the nature of the cruise. It tends to be a "fun in the sun" vacation and there is often numerous sea days - as well as repetitive stops where we have "been there, done that," and don't usually spend a long time on shore. On the other had, if we are going on a "destination" cruise (Alaska, Europe, Asia, etc.) those tend to be much more excursion - intensive and you are likely to spend the majority of your port days off the ship (and obviously unable to partake of the on-board drink package). While for our own reasons it hasn't made a difference in our choices, I can certainly see the logic at work there.

Sunset Bar Cigar Area - Celebrity Reflection
Copyright Andy Richards 2017 - All Rights Reserved

IT IS also important to be aware of some of the limitations on packages which again vary from ship line to ship line. Many of the ship lines have a daily limit (usually 15 drinks) that will be covered by any package. After that, you are on your own. I don't make it a mission to try to reach that limit and I am pretty sure I never have (even with coffee, water, etc.). Another "gotcha" is the policy of a majority of cruise lines that requires every adult in the same stateroom to have the same package. So if you are a frequent drinker, but your companion is not, he or she will still have to pay for the same package. If they have one or two drinks a day, you are essentially paying double. I am not certain what the reasoning for that rule is (you can bet there is a huge economic component for the lines in it though). Once of the articulated reasons is that they are concerned that one person buys the package and then supplies drinks for both occupants. I get that, but there certainly must be another way to "police" that issue. Online information suggests that the only mainline cruise line that does not have this requirement currently is Princess (which is interesting, as the parent company - Carnival - and the sister company - Holland America - both do observe the rule).

THERE ARE circumstances that may throw some of these observations out the window. One is if the cruise line is offering a very good deal, or even comping the drink package. More frequent cruisers who have obtained "status" will sometimes get that as an offer (be aware that it generally included the base price and you are still charged for the gratuity portion in most cases). Often, before the cruise, cruiselines will offer "sales" of packages. It pays to watch the cruiseline sites and apps and doing the math may make it actually a reasonably good deal, depending on your circumstances. I have also heard it suggested that having the package, with unlimited access, may actually encourage overconsumption. That may be true in a very limited few cases, but I wouldn't suggest that should be part of your analysis (unless you are prone to overconsumption, which is another whole, perhaps long, discussion).

IN THE end, I don't think this is an economics discussion in most cases. It is about how you cruise.

Anytime Dining vs. Set Time Dining

Cruise Ship Formal Dining Room

THERE IS little question that the "formal" atmosphere of the traditional cruise ship has transformed hugely in the past 10 years. I have discussed dress code here a couple times. For many years the norm on a cruise ship was to have an assigned table and time to dine in the main dining room (MDR). At some point, so-called "specialty" restaurants begin showing up on ships at some point, which gave passengers slightly more flexibility, but at a cost ($$$). Most passengers took advantage of the included dining room, which in my experience, was generally pretty good food. Or, if they wanted more flexibility and less formality, the ate in the buffet (which while decent food, always pales in comparison to the dining rooms in my view).

The good news is that you really don't have to choose between one of the dining styles

EATING IN the MDR generally meant an assigned seating time (there were usually 2; and early and a late seating), at the same table for the entire cruise. Depending on the size of your party and what arrangements you might have made, it also meant that you generally dined with other "table-mates," also for the entire cruise. It had its pros and cons. The expectation was that dress would be more "formal" than other parts of the cruise might be. Diners in the MDR were expected to have at least "business casual" attire on most nights, including long pants (no jeans) and shoes (no flipflops) for men and dressy pants, skirt and blouse or dress for women. There were always "Formal Nights" (the number depending on the length of the cruise). That meant dresses for the ladies and at least suit and tie for the men.

Cruise Ship Formal Dining Room

IN 2000, Norwegian Cruise Line, known for its "firsts," in cruising, changed that up, introducing its "Freestyle Dining" option, which allowed passengers to choose a time each night, within a set window (e.g., 7:00 - 9:00). Freestyle replaced NCL's traditional set time dining and is the default dining offering on all of their ships today. Shortly, other cruise lines followed suit, offering their own versions of "flex" dining. On our most frequent cruise line - Celebrity - they call it anytime dining and depending on the ship, they offer a choice of either a set time or anytime. Generally, the default is still a set time and you have an opportunity to designate anytime dining when you book the cruise. At or near the same time, our other frequent cruise line - Princess - did the same, calling their program "flexible" dining. When we were on the NCL-owned Oceania Nautica, flexible dining was our default.

THEY HAVEN'T really changed the main dining rooms on most existing ships, so you still often get the same food, wait staff, and overall ambiance - just not the same ones during the entire voyage (though you can ask for the same wait staff on multiple nights, and while they cannot necessarily guarantee the same time, table and staff, we have had good luck with that concept). However, many of the newer ships are intentionally designed with the newer dining options in mind. Newer NCL ships have numerous separate restaurants that are included as part of the fare. All the newest "Edge" class ships on Celebrity have their new concept of 4, smaller, "main dining rooms," each with a slightly different cuisine and decor, but all essentially the same setup. We like them and will usually rotate around them during the cruise.

ALONG WITH flexible dining, casual dress has eventually replaced the formal in most cases, with "formal nights" being replaced with "evening chic," "elegant," or even "country-club casual." The dress was slower to evolve; the flex dining was pretty quickly embraced. The degree of formality on these nights depends on the particular cruise line (and from my own observation, the individual passenger's interpretation of that). I still see the occasional tux and fancy evening gown on those nights. Most have probably moved to jackets, or even just button up shirts and nice slacks. I see from anything that yo
 might see in the workplace all the way to formal gowns on women these days.

Formal Dress is (mostly) a thing of the past

I AM probably not that much different than a lot of other folks out there. I don't embrace change immediately, or enthusiastically. However, I have learned (perhaps from cruising more than anything else) as I have aged that sometimes the best thing we can do is approach change with an open mind. I can think of a few "milestones" in our cruising that involved changes which I originally mentally balked at. Flex dining was one of them. One of the tried and true traditions of cruising was having an assigned table and wait staff for each night. I enjoyed knowing where to find my table, and having our waitstaff learn and know our particular peculiarities. For me, those logistics were comfortable. As we moved from that model to "any time" dining, though, my mind was opened to the positives of this program - and the negatives of the set time dining. One complaint we had consistently had was that we were often off the ship on excursions which didn't return until late afternoon or even early evening. Getting back on board at 5-6 p.m. and trying to get ready for dinner and have enough time to relax and have a drink before dinner was a challenge for the early seating. If we had the late seating we had a hard time getting to shows in the theatre, and I never really liked the feeling of a big meal only very shortly before bed time - especially when we had an early morning ahead. Being able to plan our meals at a time that worked for us (even if it differed from night to night) turned into a real positive. We never cruise any other way.

I don't embrace change enthusiastically

IF YOU do want a set time, there is always a way for the ship to accomodate you. Even on lines like NCL who don't offer an official set time, you can ask at the beginning of the cruise to be seated at the same table with the same waiters. You may have to wait a few minutes, but it can be done. We have had very good luck on Celebrity Ships requesting the same waiters and tables, even if it isn't always at the same time. They tend to be very accomodating when they can. We had pretty much the same experience on the HAL Westerdam in Japan a year ago. I read comments about long lines and waits, but we have honestly never experienced that. When there is a wait at all, it has always been very short. On the Celebrity Equinox (with its single MDR) in the Caribbean in 2023, one of us (there were 5 in our party) would go "sign up," for a table and get the "beeper" and meet the others in a nearby bar where we could have a pre-dinner cocktail. I never noticed the wait (which probably was 15 minutes at worst.

ANOTHER APPROACH that has materialized from the flexible dining model is the ability to make daily reservations. We cruised on the Celebrity Apex in the Baltic in 2022, and by the end of the first couple days we had made friends with several other couples. Most nights we dined together. One of us would go in the morning to one of the 4 MDR restaurants and make a reservation for a table of 8 - 10 of us. Never an issue. We rotated around the 4 MDR's on that ship with great success.

WITH CRUISE ships and lines moving to multiple dining options and emphasizing their "specialty" dining choices (another - perhaps ranting - post for another time), and with the ever younger demographic (or is it just that some of us are getting ever older? 😑), I suspect set dining times on the mainline cruise ships will continue to decline. At the same time, though, I think they have made it so that they can pretty much accomodate everyone's style. The good news is that you really don't have to choose between one of the dining styles to "have your cake and eat it too." We sometimes beat up on the cruise lines for things we think have declined. In this case I think the modern approach to dining on cruise ships has been a significant positive!